Build & Shoot Trailer Contest Voting

The original, free Ace of Spades game powered by the Voxlap engine. Known as “Classic,” 0.75, 0.76, and all 0.x versions. Created by Ben Aksoy.
49 posts Page 3 of 4

Best Trailer?

Poll ended at Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:57 pm

4%
ninja_pig_pro
2
4%
mcape6
2
7%
Hat~
3
9%
blackwasp
4
20%
StarDust
9
56%
Pancake
25

Total votes: 45

Bigcheecho
Build and Shoot's 1st Birthday
Build and Shoot's 1st Birthday
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:43 pm


Demo123 wrote:
How is the in-built poll non reliable?
I could easily make more than a dozen of votes with the voting system you made, just change my name and vote. Do that a couple of dozen times and there you go.

Here if you want to do that you need to make a new account everytime you want to vote.
Ain't nobody got time for that.
It's not that the poll function is unreliable, it certainly is reliable, but it's designed for First Past the Post. Since the trailer contest uses the Alternative Vote (Explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE), I have to use a Google Docs form.

"Why would you use Alternative Vote?"
The trailer is a pretty important representation of the community, so I want to ensure the community gets the best representation of themselves as possible.

"By that logic, you should have accepted Pancake's submission"
At the time, I acted strict by rejecting it due to being past-deadline. I would add it now, but then it would cause inconvenience to those who already voted (almost 40 pending or conformed last time I checked), so I'm not going to add it into the ballot. Sure, if only 5 or so people voted, I would add his in, but now, it's kind of late to add it in. However, I plan to use both the winner's and Pancake's trailers to help grow the community in the future.

"How will these trailers be used for community growth?"
I want that to be a surprise at this current moment. It isn't guaranteed that I will use the method I'm planning, but it will probably be used. When the time comes(when it's guaranteed), I'll let you know. For now, BE PATIENT YOU MUST.

"How do we know you're not rigging the polls?"
When I announce the winner in either Newsletter #12 or in a different thread, I will explain the process of counting the votes and provide you with a copy of the spreadsheet.

"What do the messages in the conformation PM mean?"
I have to write something in that box, so I'll probably just write some random thing, possibly a joke.

"Why haven't I received a conformation PM yet?"
There are 3 possible reasons:
  • You used a number more than once
  • Your name can't be PMed to
  • I haven't checked yet
If you haven't received a PM within ~30 hours of voting (This may seem long, but that's unfortunately how the world works), try redoing the ballot.

"How long do I have to conform my vote?"
Once voting ends, you can no longer conform your vote. (I will not be as strict with this rule as I was with the deadline).

Feel free to address any other concerns you may have.
Yourself
Coder
Coder
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:24 pm


Duly note that the problems with first past the post: tactical voting, gerrymandering, political party effects, campaign funding and the spoiler effect should not be a problem for a vote on an internet video.

I suggest recreating the poll using the forum mechanism.
Bigcheecho
Build and Shoot's 1st Birthday
Build and Shoot's 1st Birthday
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:43 pm


The main problem is this example:

Video 1: 40% of votes
Video 2: 15% of votes, second choice Video 4, third Video 3
Video 3: 30% of votes
Video 4: 15% of votes, second choice Video 3

Under FPTP, video 1 would win, even though 60% of people voted against Video 1
With Alternative, Video 3 would win, because more people would rather have Video 3 be featured as a trailer in community growth attempts than Video 1.
Last edited by Bigcheecho on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Demo123
Blue Master Race
Blue Master Race
Posts: 495
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:03 pm


Bigcheecho wrote:
The main problem is this example:

Video 1: 35% of votes
Video 2: 15% of votes, second choice Video 4, third Video 3
Video 3: 25% of votes
Video 4: 25% of votes, second choice Video 3

Under FPTP, video 1 would win, even though 65% of people voted against Video 1
With Alternative, Video 3 would win, because more people would rather have Video 3 be featured as a trailer in community growth attempts than Video 1.
What!
According to your logic vid 3 would win even though it has 75% of people against it.
TB_
Post Demon
Post Demon
Posts: 998
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:59 pm


Demo123 wrote:

How is the in-built poll non reliable?
I could easily make more than a dozen of votes with the voting system you made, just change my name and vote. Do that a couple of dozen times and there you go.

Here if you want to do that you need to make a new account everytime you want to vote.
Ain't nobody got time for that.
I guess it is because people can create new accounts to vote. Unless it has a minimum post count to vote kind of thing.
Bigcheecho
Build and Shoot's 1st Birthday
Build and Shoot's 1st Birthday
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:43 pm


Demo123 wrote:
Bigcheecho wrote:
The main problem is this example:

Video 1: 35% of votes
Video 2: 15% of votes, second choice Video 4, third Video 3
Video 3: 30% of votes
Video 4: 15% of votes, second choice Video 3

Under FPTP, video 1 would win, even though 65% of people voted against Video 1
With Alternative, Video 3 would win, because more people would rather have Video 3 be featured as a trailer in community growth attempts than Video 1.
What!
According to your logic vid 3 would win even though it has 75% of people against it.
But people would RATHER have Video 3 win than Video 1, because of their second and third choices.
Demo123
Blue Master Race
Blue Master Race
Posts: 495
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:03 pm


Bigcheecho wrote:
Demo123 wrote:
Bigcheecho wrote:
The main problem is this example:

Video 1: 35% of votes
Video 2: 15% of votes, second choice Video 4, third Video 3
Video 3: 30% of votes
Video 4: 15% of votes, second choice Video 3

Under FPTP, video 1 would win, even though 65% of people voted against Video 1
With Alternative, Video 3 would win, because more people would rather have Video 3 be featured as a trailer in community growth attempts than Video 1.
What!
According to your logic vid 3 would win even though it has 75% of people against it.
But people would RATHER have Video 3 win than Video 1, because of their second and third choices.
Then they should vote for vid 3 not vid 2 or 4 if they want vid 1 to win.
Vid 1 would still have more votes than vid 3. So vid 1 wins. You can't vote more than once in the poll so you can't have a second or third choice. You vote for 1 video, the other choices don't matter, because that vote counts for only 1 choice, not multiple.
The system you made is even worse. The system you made is made for RATING not choosing. Like for example I think that both 1st and the 3rd videos are perfect and I rate both of them 5 stars or whatever. But I like the 1st one more, but I still think that both are perfect so I either have to be un-honest and make one 5 stars while the other 4 or not vote at all.

It boggels my mind how you can make a really non complicated voting system like Poll into something complicated.
By simple I mean, You have 1 vote and you have to vote for one of the 5 choices, not 2 or 3 of the 5 choices.
Bigcheecho
Build and Shoot's 1st Birthday
Build and Shoot's 1st Birthday
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:43 pm


Demo123 wrote:
But vid 1 would still have more votes than vid 3. So vid 1 wins. You can't vote more than once in the poll so you can't have a second or third choice. You vote for 1 video, the other choices don't matter, because that vote counts for only 1 choice, not multiple.
The system you made is even worse. The system you made is made for RATING not choosing. Like for example I think that both 1st and the 3rd videos are perfect and I rate both of them 5 stars or whatever. But I like the 1st one more, but I still think that both are perfect so I either have to be un-honest and make one 5 stars while the other 4 or not vote at all.

It boggels my mind how you can make a really non complicated voting system like Poll into something complicated.
By simple I mean, You have 1 vote and you have to vote for one of the 5 choices, not 2 or 3 of the 5 choices.
The system I use is meant for ranking them, best to worst.
I probably won't be able to explain how it works without making the dreaded wall of text, so I suggest you watch the youtube video to see how the system I'm using works, if you haven't already.
Demo123
Blue Master Race
Blue Master Race
Posts: 495
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:03 pm


Bigcheecho wrote:
Demo123 wrote:
But vid 1 would still have more votes than vid 3. So vid 1 wins. You can't vote more than once in the poll so you can't have a second or third choice. You vote for 1 video, the other choices don't matter, because that vote counts for only 1 choice, not multiple.
The system you made is even worse. The system you made is made for RATING not choosing. Like for example I think that both 1st and the 3rd videos are perfect and I rate both of them 5 stars or whatever. But I like the 1st one more, but I still think that both are perfect so I either have to be un-honest and make one 5 stars while the other 4 or not vote at all.

It boggels my mind how you can make a really non complicated voting system like Poll into something complicated.
By simple I mean, You have 1 vote and you have to vote for one of the 5 choices, not 2 or 3 of the 5 choices.
The system I use is meant for ranking them, best to worst.
I probably won't be able to explain how it works without making the dreaded wall of text, so I suggest you watch the youtube video to see how the system I'm using works, if you haven't already.
Watched the vid and nope it's not about rating it's about listing your choices by priority.

Btw that red squarel is an idiot. Reason? He decided to vote for more popular candidate even though he could possibly ruin the damn thing and not for the one he trusted in.
If it weren't for idiots like red, the Poll system wouldn't be a problem.

But still, I think that the Poll would be better in this situation.
Mr.Torch
Artist
Artist
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:46 am


Bigcheecho wrote:
"By that logic, you should have accepted Pancake's submission"
At the time, I acted strict by rejecting it due to being past-deadline. I would add it now, but then it would cause inconvenience to those who already voted (almost 40 pending or conformed last time I checked), so I'm not going to add it into the ballot. Sure, if only 5 or so people voted, I would add his in, but now, it's kind of late to add it in. However, I plan to use both the winner's and Pancake's trailers to help grow the community in the future.
Seriously. If those "40" people truly felt strongly about their vote they would vote again. Especially considering if you used the poll function on the forum.

And according to the BnS Newsletter #10, There was a weekly average of over 525 players online (rounding down)
that means that 40 votes is only 7% of the entire "playing" community that happened to be online that week. Let alone forum goers.

And also according to you...
Bigcheecho wrote:
Pancake wrote:
*Says it's too late for another entry*
*Voting doesn't start until two days later*

Thanks a lot, man. :)
I even apologized in the white text in the OP!
However, I'll admit, if your entry was submitted earlier, then you'd probably win by a landslide.
^ 7% of votes wouldn't effect the outcome of a quote on quote "Landslide"

But for a more accurate measurement I would refer to the "Traffic Heat Map" which deals with site traffic which includes forum goers and players, and if im not mistaked i see a 78,614 at the bottom. now im not sure about this but that would calculate to "40" people only being (rounded up) .05% of our community.

So I recommend that you go along with the "Community's" wishes because the whole point of this was to serve the community if im correct?

Do we need to have a poll on the voting methods now? xD oh.. the irony..


Sources - http://buildandshoot.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3800
Sonarpulse
Coder
Coder
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:18 pm


Bigcheecho. I appreciate your interest in multiple forms of voting. Do note however, that there is no perfect voting scheme when there is 3 or more contestants, as proven with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_ ... ty_theorem . By using the built in poll system, you not only making voting much easier, but also infallibly document the portion of the vote that each candidate received. Create a second poll for "second choices" if you really want, and use that information to implement a ranked ranked voting system[/i] if you like.

At the end of the day, if Pancake's entry is the community's favorite, disqualifying his entry in the name of electoral fairness is ludicrous. Conversely, if his entry isn't going to win, there should be no harm in including it. Such severity as you have displayed is completely antithetical to the point of these polls, namely bringing together the community. Controversy like this only divides it. I understand you might be somewhat disgruntled with the arguable lack of attention this contest has received, and don't which to be pushed around by anybody trying to use that lack of attention to get away with a late entry. But I don't see any evidence that Pancake is trying to push you around like that.

At this point, I highly suggest that you invalidate the google results, turn this thread into a poll (the mods can help with that), and let in Pancake's submission. Whether you declare a winner via simple plurality or multiple pulls is up to you.
Bigcheecho
Build and Shoot's 1st Birthday
Build and Shoot's 1st Birthday
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:43 pm


Sonarpulse wrote:
Bigcheecho. I appreciate your interest in multiple forms of voting. Do note however, that there is no perfect voting scheme when there is 3 or more contestants, as proven with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_ ... ty_theorem . By using the built in poll system, you not only making voting much easier, but also infallibly document the portion of the vote that each candidate received. Create a second poll for "second choices" if you really want, and use that information to implement a ranked ranked voting system[/i] if you like.

At the end of the day, if Pancake's entry is the community's favorite, disqualifying his entry in the name of electoral fairness is ludicrous. Conversely, if his entry isn't going to win, there should be no harm in including it. Such severity as you have displayed is completely antithetical to the point of these polls, namely bringing together the community. Controversy like this only divides it. I understand you might be somewhat disgruntled with the arguable lack of attention this contest has received, and don't which to be pushed around by anybody trying to use that lack of attention to get away with a late entry. But I don't see any evidence that Pancake is trying to push you around like that.

At this point, I highly suggest that you invalidate the google results, turn this thread into a poll (the mods can help with that), and let in Pancake's submission. Whether you declare a winner via simple plurality or multiple pulls is up to you.
Alright.
I'll also have to delay the end of the voting session to one more week, since today was supposed to be the last day to vote.
sidex15
Deuced Up
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:41 am


vote wisely!!! Blue_BigSmile
danhezee
Former Admin / Co-founder
Former Admin / Co-founder
Posts: 1709
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:09 am


I think for politics the voting method you linked too would be nice but I am glad we are using the built in poll function here. Blue_Sunglasses1
TB_
Post Demon
Post Demon
Posts: 998
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:59 pm


So then, will the winner get a place in the Trailer roatation, will it be the only one, or will there be multiple trailers from both contests?
49 posts Page 3 of 4
Return to “Ace of Spades 0.x Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests