How and why I'd like to help us change our direction

The original, free Ace of Spades game powered by the Voxlap engine. Known as “Classic,” 0.75, 0.76, and all 0.x versions. Created by Ben Aksoy.
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topo
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Some of the BnS staff have been saying something for a while now. I only really understood what it was fairly recently. I think they have it right. We, the community, need to take responsibility for Ace of Spades. It's ours. We should quit complaining about it being broken. Quit expecting someone to come along and fix it for us. Someone even did - GreaseMonkey did a really fantastic job with iceball, but the community hadn't invested time in it, and didn't have too much of a say in its direction. I think the lack of community orientation was a large part of why it didn't work out.

The BnS admins have done a really great thing for us in providing continued support for the beta version of Ace of Spades. They've done an even greater thing in not attempting to push us in any particular direction. We just haven't taken advantage of that freedom. I know I, personally, have been waiting for them to do something for a long time. They shouldn't have to do any more than they already are.

That's why I want to create a successful, community-based fork of OpenSpades. What do I mean by community-based? I want you guys to make the decisions about the what and the why, without having to worry too much about the how (unless of course you're a developer who wants to help out). I want participation from a wide range of community members. I believe that a project of this nature is the only way we can attract new players whose presence will actually be healthy for the rest of the community. I think it's the only way we can grow.

As it is now, we're barely surviving. You can compare us to 1.0 all you like, but they aren't doing too well either. I don't think that they're the standard we should set for ourselves.

I'm creating this thread because I want your input. I'm creating it in this section because I want input from people who don't support OpenSpades as much as from people who do. Personally, I don't see classic AoS going anywhere. Many of the people who browse this section argue the same point... but they argue against one another about why instead of making any effort themselves to come up with a solution. I don't think that makes sense.

I'd like this to be a project which considers the points of view of everybody who has something to say. I'd like people who have opposing opinions to be civil and argue with each other respectfully. None of the petty arguments and deliberate misinterpretations that plague the other threads in this one. Please.


So here are a few questions I'd like you (yes, you. I don't care who you are; if you're reading this I'm interested in what you have to say as long as it's constructive) to answer. Don't feel like you need to answer right away. Answers that have been thought about for a while will be much clearer and more convincing.

What do you think needs to be changed about Ace of Spades?
Weapon stats? Movement? Map functions? Map size? Block size?

How should it be changed?
Less rifle spread? Better shotgun spread algorithm? Faster player movement? Block modifiers? More starting blocks?

Why would this benefit the game?
"Because I'd find it easier to play this way" is not a valid answer. Neither is "because it would be more fun" - we already know that that's the goal. Explain why.


I'd like to make it clear that this thread is in no way a guarantee that I'll go through with this idea. It's on you guys to get the ball rolling and keep it going that way. I'm willing to offer my time, programming skill, and resources if other people will get involved and actively help.

At this stage in particular it would be extremely helpful if somebody with some experience managing projects could volunteer themselves to help with that aspect, because I'm useless at prioritizing and keeping myself on task. Using IRC regularly (preferably for at least a couple of hours daily) would be an amazing plus because I really like fast and direct feedback.
Dominis
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I tried to answer the questions but it seems that I can't devide what, how and why... so just read this cluster of words.

Movement and block size are fine imo. The only thing wrong with OS is that it feels a bit stretched vertically compared to AoS. I really don't know how you could fix that :P . Call me a rifle fanboy, but I think smg should not be able to shoot trough blocks just like a hot knife cuts through butter. Also, it deals too much damage aka too fast damage so make it shoot less bullets per minute or w/e . Smg spamming on cs servers makes AoS just like some random FPS game. I also hate the fact that you can't build on cs servers. (you can't fix this by changing the game, but you can change the servers for sure) I don't feel much difference when I play 75 or 76 with a rifle bc you get used to it pretty quickly ,so I don't really care about the rifle changes (if it dosen't get changed too much). Also, make ˝forked OS˝ customisable just like classic AoS is/was. Make smg less powerful. I already said why and how up there. Shotgun should be able to shoot a bit further. That might make players use it a bit more than they use it today. Are these answers good enough? A bit short aren't they? Just like my... nvm. I would be happy to donate moni if you would actually start working on the ˝new AoS˝ or ˝forked OS˝. Since the things you already did with TOS are already really good (smg still sux tho) I will trust you with anything you do.
wheelz
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What exactly is wrong with OpenSpades and its developing process, that it needs to be forked by you?
Why now even try to split the OpenSpades community?
Jdrew
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wheelz wrote:
What exactly is wrong with OpenSpades and its developing process, that it needs to be forked by you?
Why now even try to split the OpenSpades community?
http://www.buildandshoot.com/viewtopic. ... 604#p90604

Your the same person who yelled at topo about topo-spades. I really don't think there is anything wrong with starting another version. At the top topo mentioned that the community has control over the game so if the community( that includes topo) wants to go and do something they have the power to do it. I also don't think OpenSpades has its own community as it connects to our servers right now so they are part of BnS if anything.
wheelz
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Jdrew wrote:
Your the same person who yelled at topo about topo-spades.
yeah, and?
Jdrew wrote:
I really don't think there is anything wrong with starting another version.
We already have a community developed version. Again: What is wrong with it? Theres indeed something wrong to start another version, if you dont have a reason for it. How many more AOS games do you want to add to the already big pile...
Jdrew wrote:
I also don't think OpenSpades has its own community
Several Players have already switched to playing OpenSpades only. There is your community.
Jdrew
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They connect to the BnS servers though. As for the project, I think it would be a good change but what exactly could you add topo? You are asking use to give you suggestions but it would be good if you told us some of the things possible.
danhezee
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wheelz wrote:
What exactly is wrong with OpenSpades and its developing process, that it needs to be forked by you?
Why now even try to split the OpenSpades community?
Why sit back and wait when you can help advance the community?
Gingerninjaperson
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This sounds great, can't wait for it to go through. I'm limited on time right now, so I can't really answer any of the questions. As for having "another version of the game," that's not an issue. We all connect to the same servers, we still play the same game, this is really more of a mod. People don't complain that there are hundreds of mods for games like Skyrim, and that these mods break up the community, because it doesn't.
topo
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Dominis wrote:
I tried to answer the questions but it seems that I can't devide what, how and why... so just read this cluster of words.

Movement and block size are fine imo. The only thing wrong with OS is that it feels a bit stretched vertically compared to AoS. I really don't know how you could fix that :P . Call me a rifle fanboy, but I think smg should not be able to shoot trough blocks just like a hot knife cuts through butter. Also, it deals too much damage aka too fast damage so make it shoot less bullets per minute or w/e . Smg spamming on cs servers makes AoS just like some random FPS game. I also hate the fact that you can't build on cs servers. (you can't fix this by changing the game, but you can change the servers for sure) I don't feel much difference when I play 75 or 76 with a rifle bc you get used to it pretty quickly ,so I don't really care about the rifle changes (if it dosen't get changed too much). Also, make ˝forked OS˝ customisable just like classic AoS is/was. Make smg less powerful. I already said why and how up there. Shotgun should be able to shoot a bit further. That might make players use it a bit more than they use it today. Are these answers good enough? A bit short aren't they? Just like my... nvm. I would be happy to donate moni if you would actually start working on the ˝new AoS˝ or ˝forked OS˝. Since the things you already did with TOS are already really good (smg still sux tho) I will trust you with anything you do.
Thanks for the input.
wheelz wrote:
What exactly is wrong with OpenSpades and its developing process, that it needs to be forked by you?
Why now even try to split the OpenSpades community?
I'm not trying to split anything; if you'd actually read my post you'd know that I want a community effort. Regardless, I didn't create this thread to argue. If you like, we can discuss this via PM. I would very much like this thread to be kept clean and on topic, so I'm not going to respond if you try to keep this discussion going in it.
Jdrew wrote:
They connect to the BnS servers though. As for the project, I think it would be a good change but what exactly could you add topo? You are asking use to give you suggestions but it would be good if you told us some of the things possible.
I gave you a small list of possible suggestions in the first post, but really anything is possible. I'm not looking for suggestions so much as for people to start doing something actually helpful for themselves and the rest of the community, and shape the future of the game as a group. I know that if I were to only make the changes I want, I'd end up with a quake/cs hybrid with blocks. :p
Jdrew
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Could we add jetpacks or vehicles to the game? I know that is something only I want most likely but could it be possible?
topo
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Sure, it'd be possible. Probably not popular, but possible.
Arkger
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topo wrote:
Some of the BnS staff have been saying something for a while now. I only really understood what it was fairly recently. I think they have it right. We, the community, need to take responsibility for Ace of Spades. It's ours. We should quit complaining about it being broken. Quit expecting someone to come along and fix it for us. Someone even did - GreaseMonkey did a really fantastic job with iceball, but the community hadn't invested time in it, and didn't have too much of a say in its direction. I think the lack of community orientation was a large part of why it didn't work out.

The BnS admins have done a really great thing for us in providing continued support for the beta version of Ace of Spades. They've done an even greater thing in not attempting to push us in any particular direction. We just haven't taken advantage of that freedom. I know I, personally, have been waiting for them to do something for a long time. They shouldn't have to do any more than they already are.

That's why I want to create a successful, community-based fork of OpenSpades. What do I mean by community-based? I want you guys to make the decisions about the what and the why, without having to worry too much about the how (unless of course you're a developer who wants to help out). I want participation from a wide range of community members. I believe that a project of this nature is the only way we can attract new players whose presence will actually be healthy for the rest of the community. I think it's the only way we can grow.

As it is now, we're barely surviving. You can compare us to 1.0 all you like, but they aren't doing too well either. I don't think that they're the standard we should set for ourselves.

I'm creating this thread because I want your input. I'm creating it in this section because I want input from people who don't support OpenSpades as much as from people who do. Personally, I don't see classic AoS going anywhere. Many of the people who browse this section argue the same point... but they argue against one another about why instead of making any effort themselves to come up with a solution. I don't think that makes sense.

I'd like this to be a project which considers the points of view of everybody who has something to say. I'd like people who have opposing opinions to be civil and argue with each other respectfully. None of the petty arguments and deliberate misinterpretations that plague the other threads in this one. Please.


So here are a few questions I'd like you (yes, you. I don't care who you are; if you're reading this I'm interested in what you have to say as long as it's constructive) to answer. Don't feel like you need to answer right away. Answers that have been thought about for a while will be much clearer and more convincing.

What do you think needs to be changed about Ace of Spades?
Weapon stats? Movement? Map functions? Map size? Block size?

How should it be changed?
Less rifle spread? Better shotgun spread algorithm? Faster player movement? Block modifiers? More starting blocks?

Why would this benefit the game?
"Because I'd find it easier to play this way" is not a valid answer. Neither is "because it would be more fun" - we already know that that's the goal. Explain why.


I'd like to make it clear that this thread is in no way a guarantee that I'll go through with this idea. It's on you guys to get the ball rolling and keep it going that way. I'm willing to offer my time, programming skill, and resources if other people will get involved and actively help.

At this stage in particular it would be extremely helpful if somebody with some experience managing projects could volunteer themselves to help with that aspect, because I'm useless at prioritizing and keeping myself on task. Using IRC regularly (preferably for at least a couple of hours daily) would be an amazing plus because I really like fast and direct feedback.
Topo, at this rate I'll love you more than your mother <3.

What we need to do first, is find a direction.

While some may think AoS is made for arena (OH GOD WHY), and some argue it's all about Rivers vs mountains, we all have a direction we want to move in. The best idea for us would be to accomodate EVERYONE. Now how is that possible? Being open ended.

My name is Arkger. I want to make a server. With this new game, I'll make a WWII server. My players will be in USA or GERMANY attire. They will all carry weapon skins issued to them (M14, Thompson, etc.). They will be able to pick what they carry in their kit, and the more they have the slower they are. If they choose to take only a M14 and 1 or 2 grenades, they will be faster than the guy with a Thompson, a couple medkits (WHICH REQUIRE YOU TO ACTUALLY STAND NEAR SOMEONE AND PATCH THEM UP OVER A PERIOD OF TIME[Looking at BF4]), and a pistol. I want it so it's a super sized map of Normandy, and for it to be 64 players. I want it to be a custom gamemode, where americans push up, and Germans to fall back and try to keep the Americans at bay. If the americans cannot push up all the way in a time amount alloted, or they lose al of their lives, the Germans win. I want it so after this, when the map rotates, It changes to a random European front, where it's ToW, etc. I want there to be basic transport, and MGs, most of the things they have in WWII. Semi-Simulation at it's best, basically.

My name is Deucey. I want to make a server. With this new game, I'll make a BF4 server. I want everyone to have their own weapon skins, I don't want any of the mines, barbed wire, weight calculation or any of that. I want a city map like capitol, I want Assault Rifles, Helicopters, tanks, and tons of fun! I want to be as close to BF4 as possible.

My name is grumpy old vet. I want to make a server. With this new game, I will go back in time to .54. It will be just like .54. None of the crap you see up there. I will keep Classicgen pls.

My name is Ricky. I want to make a server. With this new game, I'll make an improved version of the game. Ill fix the rifle accuracy, SMG accuracy, and maybe add a pistol.

Perhaps with a new improved PySnip/Pyspades, we could allow enough breathing room for that things servers allow and disallow, along with the extra rules and variables, are easily coded and added as scripts.

Oh, and if you want more ideas, gander at this:http://www.buildandshoot.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=7086

Perhaps you'll find a diamond in the rough?
Juxta
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Alright I have to say it:

Secondary weapon, i.e. pistol/another small weapon.

I don't know if Iceball did it as I never explored it but I'd still appreciate that a whole lot.

On a bigger point, how about some new in game mechanics? We could make water campers even more annoying by making crouching in water so it submerges your head. It should be a limited period and slow your movement speed a bit. Make for great usage of water features of maps that are basically just noisy open areas and convert them into plausible sneaking grounds in plain sight.

Thoughts?
Jdrew
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What if we try and make it similar to the openGL client Mat & Ben were working on? So custom .kv6 files for each server( would be default if a package couldn't be found), custom sounds for each server(again default if the client can't find a package), then add other features the community agrees on.

@juxta water combat
izzy
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More accurate consistency between the mechanics of OpenSpades and Voxlap AoS, such as:
  • Grenade projectile
  • Weapon spread
  • Weapon recoil
  • Sneak/walk/run/jump movement
Server-side modifications:
  • Custom models, sounds, and settings transferred and forced to the client from the server
Adjustable maps:
  • Static: Smaller and bigger than 512x512x64
  • Dynamic: Generated on-the-fly to “infinite” size as players enter unknown space, similar to what Minecraft does
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