VoxelWar Discussion thread

Miscellaneous projects by the Build and Shoot community.
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bloodfox
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Ooooh. I see it perfectly! :) Interesting... For that image were you using that "fake" lighting?
LeCom


No, the picture only showed that it is working. I am using it for fog currently, and it displays it correctly (just like in Voxlap). But if I use it for shading, it looks nice too (I could add it as an option, in exchange for a FPS drop). I have the feeling I'm explaining too much complex technical stuff here xD

But I will think about it later, first I want to add sprites.
bloodfox
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Sweet! How will you find those sprites? Are they in the scripts of voxlap?
Jdrew
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It would be .kv6 files. All the models in a game are sprites, or at least the characters and their equipment.
Mr.Torch
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I personally dislike OpenSpades. I can't see any text at all, it is slow, glitchy, and doesn't play anywhere close to the original. So, before anyone thinks it's the all inclusive perfect system keep in mind that others have slow computers :).

LeCom, if you can make this a finished product I will be extremely happy. :) A client that looks better than the normal client, but still plays and functions like the old one with some tweaks would be amazing. A nice in-between for .75/.76 and OpenLag would be great.
VladVP
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LeCom wrote:
I'm using Sonarpulse's Voxlap port (http://buildandshoot.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=370)
Did you really make it compile? Maybe I should get the old team together and finish it once and for all.
LeCom


Heh, nice that one of the Voxlap port team has noticed this ^^

Well, I'm sorry that I can't remember how I made it compile, but I know that there were some small problems that prevented it from compiling, which I fixed with a not too big effort. I am NOT using the v5.asm things, because I want to compile it in pure C. Voxlap without v5.asm is basically just pure voxel rendering, without any shading or fog or Z buffer, plus some miscellaneous functions (no kv6 as well). But unlike you, I try to fix it instead of porting so after some improvements I have pure C voxel rendering code, that can 100% replace the v5.asm now.

There is only one big problem: The kv6 renderer is part of the v5.asm, and there's no replacement for it. If you continue working on your port, I really would appreciate a C version of drawboundcube*** (one thing you might need to know is that drawboundcube***init does modify the drawboundcube*** code, just search it for sth like 88888888h with the according variable as a comment in the same line).

While "fixing" Voxlap, I gained a lot of knowledge of how it actually works. If you have any questions related to its algorithm, you can ask me. But yeah, imo you really should finally finish it (or at least port the kv6 rendering code so I won't have to add it on my own which would be slower).
Btw, what license does the port use now? As you know, Sonarpulse failed using GPL, so is it just the same as Ken's original Voxlap license?
TorchOF wrote:
I personally dislike OpenSpades. I can't see any text at all, it is slow, glitchy, and doesn't play anywhere close to the original. So, before anyone thinks it's the all inclusive perfect system keep in mind that others have slow computers :).

LeCom, if you can make this a finished product I will be extremely happy. :) A client that looks better than the normal client, but still plays and functions like the old one with some tweaks would be amazing. A nice in-between for .75/.76 and OpenLag would be great.
Why can't everyone have such an opinion? ;)
bloodfox
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Well As much as I like OS, it runs like crap on my computer and all I want is just a more improved version of 0.75 with better graphics and no lag. Btw, will you find a way to use OpenGL for this client? If so that would be cool!
LeCom


bloodfox wrote:
Btw, will you find a way to use OpenGL for this client? If so that would be cool!
Well, if you want GL, use openspades. Not letting it be the main client is one of the biggest reasons why I started this project. People like yvt see OpenGL as an universal lib that can render everything at 60 FPS, but as you see it's NOT the case (at least not if you don't buy expensive shit), GL runs crappy because rendering voxels is quite different than rendering other stuff. If you want to display them on the screen and get a proper FPS, you need a special renderer optimized for only rendering voxels like Voxlap. Openspades is an example of what happens if you don't.

There are 2 main things which make GL look how it looks: Anti-aliasing/blur, better shading, and the thick fog that you can already see at short distances. I can make the fog behave similar to openspades, blur/anti-alisasing is possible if you have no problem playing with 10 FPS less, and shading is being worked on.
bloodfox
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Hm, well then can you use a different type of shading then from the default textures for Aos? Because I am quite annoyed with non solid blocks ( I mean that the weapons are 2d instead of 3d. Perhaps something that would look like Iceball)
VladVP
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LeCom wrote:
While "fixing" Voxlap, I gained a lot of knowledge of how it actually works. If you have any questions related to its algorithm, you can ask me.
Lol, I remember staring at old forum posts by Ken for hours and making Sonar email him about the algorithms. I already have a near-complete understanding of exactly how Voxlap works. But even despite that, there are still things in the algorithms that are beyond the comprehension of mortal beings, and that can only be understood by people like Ken.
VladVP
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bloodfox wrote:
Btw, will you find a way to use OpenGL for this client? If so that would be cool!
There is absolutely zero and null reason to use OpenGL over DirectX on Windows. Things like DirectDraw are built into the Windows NT kernel. It is virtually impossible to get faster graphics drawing on Windows. Ken was a wise man, he knew what he was doing.
It does however make sense to do this if we are targetting Linux, as the situation is reversed here. OpenGL communicates directly with the Linux kernel, and is thusly the direct analog to DirectX on Windows. The only faster thing I can imagine is probably frame buffering, but that's not exactly a good idea to mess with on most Linux operating systems.
LeCom


I think he means using OpenGL for 3D rendering. Nobody is having any doubts about SDL for framebuffer/etc.
VladVP wrote:
Lol, I remember staring at old forum posts by Ken for hours and making Sonar email him about the algorithms. I already have a near-complete understanding of exactly how Voxlap works. But even despite that, there are still things in the algorithms that are beyond the comprehension of mortal beings, and that can only be understood by people like Ken.
That's really great news! So do you know what that damn drawboundcube*** does, so I could reimplement it in C? That would be a lot better than Z-buffer raycasting the kv6 data onto the screen, what would look even worse (Voxlap kv6 rendering is crappy enough imo) AND be slower.
bloodfox
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LeCom wrote:
I think he means using OpenGL for 3D rendering. Nobody is having any doubts about SDL for framebuffer/etc
Yeah that is what I mean. I want it to be able to run with 3D rendering because I find the looks Aos has is pretty darn ugly.
learn_more
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LeCom wrote:
The fact that BnS is pushing such a poor client like openspades (which really disappointed me) kinda motivated me to write a new client. At first I didn't even expect Voxlap to work, so I just wrote a program which connected to pysnip and showed an oveview of the map including the players, just like the map of AoS classic. Then, I suddenly found the mistake I was doing, and made Voxlap render voxel data. With some effort, I could embed it into the client, and now it's possible to look around and walk through the map with some limitations cause I only added simple quick and dirty physics. But when I tried to render kv6, I noticed that the rendering code doesn't work (I moved drawboundcubesse from v5.asm into C via inline assembly instead of linking).
LeCom wrote:
learn_more wrote:
you did not even give something to compile.
http://advsys.net/ken/voxlap/voxlap_src.zip (Not that hard to find, that's why I didn't add a link at first)
learn_more wrote:
and why not just port the code to gcc?
Because like half of the whole library is written in assembler, using MSVC. That means, it is written using Intel syntax, while GCC only supports AT&T syntax. When porting a small piece of code from to a format that is copatible with GCC and using -masm=intel (parameter for switching to Intel syntax), it complained about many invalid data types. After "fixing" it (with my limited knowledge of assembler), the code segfaulted because of data not properly being set.
uhh, nothing in that zip compiles to a dll, hence my question.

edit:
ohhh, now i understand.
you didnt want someone to compile it for you, you wanted someone to do it all for you....
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